The ammo problem (and a solution)

[Atarlost]

There are reliable, unlimited sources of only two types of ammo: Akan shells, and micronukes, and only the latter is available in quantity when it's still useful.

I propose making ammo available in unlimited quantity from certain shops. With the proposed setup all ammo weapons not associated with a sovereign become viable because the player knows he or she has a good chance of being able to find a place to buy more ammo. It would be ideal if the lists were stored, not in the stations, but globally so that mods could append to them as appropriate.

&stCommonwealthColony; (cuc--)
SmartCannon shells, KM100s, KM110s, and 400 MAGs

&stCommonwealthDryDock; (uucuu r----)
SmartCannon shells, Akan shells, dragonfly cartridges, KM100-500 missiles, 400-800 MAGs, white strelkas

&stCommonwealthFortress; (---cc ur---)
SmartCannon shells, Akan shells, dragonfly cartridges, thermo cannon shells, KM100-550 missiles, all nonmilitary MAGs, nonmilitary strelkas, CRM100 mines

&stCommonwealthColonyArmed; (---uu cu---)
SmartCannon shells, Akan shells, dragonfly cartridges, all nonmilitary NAMI missiles, all nonmilitary MAGs, both nonmilitary Strelkas

&stCommonwealthSettlement; (----- -ucr-)
Akan shells, dragonfly cartridges, thermo cannon shells, kiloton shells, TM7 warheads, KM120-500, Cluster MAGs, JB2 MAGs, siege MAGs, green Strelkas, both mines, Gotha-10s

CSC (various) (----- rcu--)(----- -rur-)
XM900s, NAMI heavy missiles, NAMI mines
Gives you a supply appropriate to your launcher if NAMI, or a NM900 when you do a mission.

&stArmsDealer; (uccr-)
SmartCannon shells, KM100s, KM110s, and 400 MAGs

&stArmsDealerRasiermesser; (-rurv)
SmartCannon shells, Akan shells, nonmilitary MAGs

&stArmsDealerMakayev; (--rur v----)
nonmilitary Strelkas

&stArmsDealerBushido; (---ru rv---)
thermo cannon shells

&stAdventurerOutfitters; (---ru cu---)
thermo cannon shells, Akan shells, dragonfly cartridges, KM120-550, XM300, Cluster MAGs, JB2 MAGs, siege MAGs, green Strelkas

&stRasiermesserFactory; (----- rur--)
SmartCannon shells, Akan shells, all MAGs, both Gothas

&stMakayevFactory; (----- rrur-)
all strelkas

&stTaikonVentures; (----- -uur-)
TM7 warheads


&stTeratonFactory; (----- --ruv)
kytryn plasma pods

[george moromisato]

I think it's a great idea!

To implement I would add some attributes to the ammo items and then use an item criteria formula to create the appropriate items on the stations (this would allow mods to create new ammo and new stations).

For example, I might add the "Commonwealth" attribute (or something) to SmartCannon shells, KM100s, KM110s, and 400 MAGs. Then I would add some code to Commonwealth Colonies to create ammo that matches the following criteria:

"m +Commonwealth; <=3;"

[Not sure what the right attributes to add to all ammo items, but perhaps people can make suggestions.]

[Song]

Indeed. Ammo sources are always good.

[Atarlost]

I think it's a great idea!

To implement I would add some attributes to the ammo items and then use an item criteria formula to create the appropriate items on the stations (this would allow mods to create new ammo and new stations).

For example, I might add the "Commonwealth" attribute (or something) to SmartCannon shells, KM100s, KM110s, and 400 MAGs. Then I would add some code to Commonwealth Colonies to create ammo that matches the following criteria:

"m +Commonwealth; <=3;"

[Not sure what the right attributes to add to all ammo items, but perhaps people can make suggestions.]

Yeah, that's a cleaner way than what I was thinking. How about this:

Commonwealth All commonwealth and corporate hierarchy ammo
Everything but the cnidocyst, nandao, ares nukes, kytryn pod, and disintegrator shells.

BasicAmmo This list is bottom line stuff, but bottom line doesn't always happen at the same level so level limiters don't work.
KM100, 110, and 500, the 400 MAG, the white Strelka, and SmartCannon ammo.

PremiumAmmo This list gets the top of the line stuff that we don't want too easy to get
XM300, XM900, High Flux MAG, Black Strelka, NAMI Heavy ammo; if to be used in other contexts maybe add Ares Warhammer.

Fleet The ammo the fleet actively uses, because it wouldn't have other stuff on hand on the off chance some militia pilot helps out on the way to Heretic.
XM900, NAMI Heavy missiles, NAMI mines



&stCommonwealthColony; (cuc--)
"m +Commonwealth; +BasicAmmo; <=3;"

&stCommonwealthDryDock; (uucuu r----)
"m +Commonwealth; -Military; <=5;"

&stCommonwealthFortress; (---cc ur---)
"m +Commonwealth; -PremiumAmmo <=7"
This should be the level band for the broadsword so I don't want the XM series missiles, and I want the thermo cannon available, since it can be bought this early if you're lucky. This filter would also pass the kiloton shell, which shouldn't matter because NAMI weapons don't get any specialty shops selling them early.

&stCommonwealthColonyArmed; (---uu cu---)
"m +Commonwealth; -Military;"

&stCommonwealthSettlement; (----- -ucr-)
"m +Commonwealth; -PremiumAmmo;"

CSC (various) (----- rcu--)(----- -rur-)
"m +Fleet"

&stArmsDealer; (uccr-)
"m +Commonwealth; +BasicAmmo;"
Adds the white strelka, because it really should have been there since you can buy Makayev launchers from these places.

&stArmsDealerRasiermesser; (-rurv)
"m +Rasiermesser; -Military;"

&stArmsDealerMakayev; (--rur v----)
"m +Makayev; -Military;"

&stArmsDealerBushido; (---ru rv---)
"m +Bushido;"

&stAdventurerOutfitters; (---ru cu---)
"m +Commonwealth; >=4; <=6;"

&stRasiermesserFactory; (----- rur--)
"m +Rasiermesser;"

&stMakayevFactory; (----- rrur-)
"m +Makayev;"

&stTaikonVentures; (----- -uur-)
"m +Taikon;"

&stTeratonFactory; (----- --ruv)
"m +Alien <=12;"

[Wurmish]

I support this idea. Mostly because I really want to try some of these weapons that never have enough ammo...

[Matz05]

Agreed.

This will make eg. Dragonflys and MAGs much more usefull. Mags are usefull throughout the game as long as you have the right ammo available at the right time. (mid-early 400/600/800F, mid 800F/Shieldbuster (never actually used shieldbusters), mid-late siege siege/cluster, lateish Flux.

[Atarlost]

Well, I don't think this'll do much for the dragonfly. Spread3 is just plain a bad configuration and the dragonfly is balanced as though it's not. But that's a separate discussion, and not one we can really have until the fundamental ammo availability problem is fixed.

[Song]

Well, I don't think this'll do much for the dragonfly. Spread3 is just plain a bad configuration and the dragonfly is balanced as though it's not. But that's a separate discussion, and not one we can really have until the fundamental ammo availability problem is fixed.

Generally true.

Currently the only reasonable way to get ammo for some weapons is to farm things that use them EG: Molotoks for dragonflies (which suck), Gaians for thermo shells.

Once ammo is around, balance comes into the equation.


Another good exampleis the Kytryn launcher. Not a single person uses it against the iocrym...because they simply can't *get* it, let alone the ammo. Once it's actually usable, it can be tried out for balance and the like.

[george moromisato]

I added the attributes suggested by Atarlost (thanks!) and compiled the resulting ammo list for each of the filters:

[One minor tweak: I renamed the "Fleet" attribute to "CommonwealthFleet" for clarity.]

&stCommonwealthColony; (cuc--)
"m +Commonwealth; +BasicAmmo; <=3;"

KM100 Longbow missile
SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
KM110 Starburst missile

&stCommonwealthDryDock; (uucuu r----)
"m +Commonwealth; -Military; <=5;"
[Note: There is currently no place to buy stuff from a Dry Dock, which may or may not need to change.]

KM100 Longbow missile
SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
KM110 Starburst missile
KM120 Brute missile
600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
Dragonfly missile cartridge
KM500 Stiletto missile
800F hexagene MAG
White Strelka missile

&stCommonwealthFortress; (---cc ur---)
"m +Commonwealth; -PremiumAmmo <=7"

KM100 Longbow missile
SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
KM110 Starburst missile
KM120 Brute missile
600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
Dragonfly missile cartridge
KM500 Stiletto missile
800F hexagene MAG
White Strelka missile
KM550 Broadsword missile
Green Strelka missile
kiloton cannon shell
JB2 shield buster MAG
ZG24 cluster MAG
CRM100 Fatboy mine
3K siege MAG
Red Strelka missile
thermo cannon shell cartridge

&stCommonwealthColonyArmed; (---uu cu---)
"m +Commonwealth; -Military;"

KM100 Longbow missile
SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
KM110 Starburst missile
KM120 Brute missile
600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
Dragonfly missile cartridge
KM500 Stiletto missile
800F hexagene MAG
White Strelka missile
Green Strelka missile
kiloton cannon shell
JB2 shield buster MAG
ZG24 cluster MAG
3K siege MAG

&stCommonwealthSettlement; (----- -ucr-)
"m +Commonwealth; -PremiumAmmo;"

KM100 Longbow missile
SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
KM110 Starburst missile
KM120 Brute missile
600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
Dragonfly missile cartridge
KM500 Stiletto missile
800F hexagene MAG
White Strelka missile
KM550 Broadsword missile
Green Strelka missile
kiloton cannon shell
JB2 shield buster MAG
ZG24 cluster MAG
CRM100 Fatboy mine
3K siege MAG
Red Strelka missile
thermo cannon shell cartridge
Gotha-10 missile
CRM500 Running Man mine
TM7 warhead
Gotha-400 seeker

CSC (various) (----- rcu--)(----- -rur-)
"m +CommonwealthFleet"
[Note: There currently is no place to buy stuff at a CSC; perhaps there should be a place that re-arms the player with missiles after completing missions (or something).]

CRM100 Fatboy mine
XM900 Lucifer missile
CRM500 Running Man mine
S3 Medusa missile
M2 Vulcan missile
M5 Nemesis missile

&stArmsDealer; (uccr-)
"m +Commonwealth; +BasicAmmo;"

KM100 Longbow missile
SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
KM110 Starburst missile
KM500 Stiletto missile
White Strelka missile

&stArmsDealerRasiermesser; (-rurv)
"m +Rasiermesser; -Military;"

SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
800F hexagene MAG
JB2 shield buster MAG
ZG24 cluster MAG
3K siege MAG

&stArmsDealerMakayev; (--rur v----)
"m +Makayev; -Military;"

White Strelka missile
Green Strelka missile

&stArmsDealerBushido; (---ru rv---)
"m +Bushido;"

thermo cannon shell cartridge

&stAdventurerOutfitters; (---ru cu---)
"m +Commonwealth; >=4; <=6;"

600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
Dragonfly missile cartridge
KM500 Stiletto missile
XM300 Reaper missile
800F hexagene MAG
White Strelka missile
KM550 Broadsword missile
Green Strelka missile
kiloton cannon shell
JB2 shield buster MAG
ZG24 cluster MAG

&stRasiermesserFactory; (----- rur--)
"m +Rasiermesser;"

SmartCannon round
400 hexagene MAG
600 hexagene MAG
Akan 30 cannon shell cartridge
800F hexagene MAG
JB2 shield buster MAG
ZG24 cluster MAG
3K siege MAG
Gotha-10 missile
98R high-flux MAG
Gotha-400 seeker

&stMakayevFactory; (----- rrur-)
"m +Makayev;"

White Strelka missile
Green Strelka missile
Red Strelka missile
Black Strelka missile

&stTaikonVentures; (----- -uur-)
"m +Taikon;"

TM7 warhead

&stTeratonFactory; (----- --ruv)
"m +Alien <=12;"

Kytryn plasma pod

Feel free to suggest places where the filters/attributes aren't working as expected/desired.